I put a bunch of censuses and stuff up for you guys if you're interested. I didn't want to clutter up the
blog too much with them. I have the 1885 Wisconsin State Census for Anton Obieglo and the 1895 Wisconsin State Census for Frank Kondziela. They go up from there. If you're interested in looking at them, just click this link:
Konsela and Obieglo Documents
What a great idea, Joe. I like the fact that you can zoom in on the documents. Being able to share them with others is wonderful!
ReplyDeleteTomorrow, hopefully I'll get a chance to name them all. I didn't realize that you couldn't see the names of them until I just checked them now. I am rushing to get ready for work and am about to walk out the door. Maybe I'll be able to get on there with my phone later tonight to edit them.
ReplyDeleteJoe, this is excellent information. Thank you so much for sharing. I have many questions but here is one to start with.
ReplyDeleteFrom your research, were Robert and Olga German or Polish? (or Austrian or Bohemian or Solvak or one of those groups???) Does anyone remember them speaking a native language? Just because they left from a German port does not mean they had to be German. Can you tell where they originated from and who claimed that territory at the time or what nationality groups inhabited that region?
I've seen German and Polish, and that they were in Prussia. The funny thing is Prussia, Germany, and Poland all can be the exact same place depending on what time and area you're referring to. Pretty much everything I've seen puts them in the province of Silesia though (of course a part of Poland that has been Prussia and Germany). There were also other ethnic groups and subgroups in those areas as well (Slavs, Kashubians, Jews and more). This is what August's grandson told me on this topic:
ReplyDelete"There are several passenger lists of our family with different towns and places where they could have come from. They were Silesian per grandpa. He Spoke Silesian, Silesian German, Polish and about 6 other languages. He was Roman Catholic and talked about Breslau a lot...seemed to love this city. He was from Sestenberg per his obit. That town now starts with a T and a Polish name. I am looking for the spelling right now. Another passenger list shows all of them from another place in Silesia, go figure. I have not been able to reconcile any of the different places. One shows Frank as being from Frankfort au Main, Germany.
The German names of the towns are now Polish names and some are not even close to the German. Problem is, this happens with each time the country changed hans and different names over and over."
Here is a link about "Silesian People":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesians
Something that I thought was rather interesting... the Kinsellas that are listed in early Wisconsin censuses are not related to us, but it says that they are from Ireland. When reading about the Silesian people, the Celtic people originally inhabited the area about 1400 years ago. Perhaps there is a connection.
I thought about something else in regard to "what language did Olga and Robert speak?" Both were young (Olga 6 months and Robert 4). They would have learned English from their older school age siblings. It was usually at school that children learned to speak English and brought it home for the rest of the family. Often private "church schools" taught in the language of the people of the settlement. I know that our mother, Mary, attended the boarding Catholic school in Waumandee. Does anyone have any history on the school and what language they used in their instructional program in the early years? Did all the Konsela kids attend there? What about Olga and John? Anyone know anything about this?
DeleteI meant "Olga and ROBERT" in my reply above. And could not fix it...
DeleteJust to avoid confusion... I forgot to mention that I was talking about Frank's son August (Robert's brother).
ReplyDeleteOK... I figured out that Frank Kondziela is on the same exact image as Anton Obieglo for the 1885 Wisconsin State Census! They have him down as Frank Conshalla.
ReplyDeleteSo how close together did they live for a census taker to get them on one page?
ReplyDeleteIf you look on the map that I posted along with the other documents, they're both on there. The 1896 map has the Kondzielas highlighted. If you look in the bottom right corner of square number 15, that is Anton's property.
ReplyDeleteAgain, I am so impressed with your ability to answer questions so quickly and with such solid resources!!! I am so happy to connect the documents! Thank you, Thank you!
DeleteAdded Robert Konsela WWI draft card to documents on photobucket.
ReplyDeleteI found something interesting today that would go along with what I said already. "Search for the origin and meaning of the name: Kondziela Polish: Kadziel: distaff, Kundel po kadzieli: German mother: Consultation: consulting, appraisals, Latin Council: Council: Catholic Church Assembly, especially the bishops, the name comes from Kondziela Silesia. In 1810 the name was already registered: Hedwig Kondziela scarf Kowitz, Opole, Franz Kondziela 1815 and 1837 Franciska Kondziela Scharnosin, Silesia;
ReplyDelete(Submitted by Joachim Kondziela)"
This is translated through Google. It was originally written in German.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.yasni.ch/kondziela/name%2Bverzeichnis&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522franz%2Bkondziela%2522%26start%3D30%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DM65%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D681%26bih%3D359%26prmd%3Dimvnso&sa=X&ei=ye4OUO3AMMqGjAKt0YDwCA&ved=0CCQQ7gEwADge